Ryan Myher, founder and host from No Code No Problem, joins Jeremy in a maybe off the record conversation about podcasts, top no-code tools, the struggle to freemiums, and thin lines in the field.
TLDR;Some Good Quotes
- So Ben [Tossell from Makerpad], I was following, both of them and I was like looking: I was sitting there one night and I looked up no-code in Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I couldn't find anything. So I messaged Joe on Twitter and I was like, “Hey, I have this idea. I want to start the no-code podcast, and I'm going to call no problem, and I'm gonna do it.” And he's like, yeah, do it. And then like I recorded that night and the next morning I published it and here we are today.
- The only reason that I knew about Glide Apps in the first place was I saw an ad somewhere and I bookmarked it and was like, I may need this later on. Like, I'll check it out later. And then whenever I got that text [about parties for the weekend], it was like that moment. It was like, in my head, I was like, Oh, this is definitely like, I can build this [app, fucked up] on glide apps. So I went on and I built it like extremely fast within an hour. And I started putting it on like my Snapchat and stuff.
- I was marketing this book [Podcast Growth Hacking: 0 Plays to $5k in 5 Months] out to like podcast hosts and there are these Facebook groups on obviously Facebook that have like 30 K plus people in it. And I didn't realize how untechnical the majority of podcast hosts are like; compared to them, we are like really technical people. But then compared to people like Emmanuel and Jeremy and all these people from like Dollo and all these companies, like, we're obviously not technical. It's just funny to see the playing field in which what we consider technical and not technical.
- I would be interested to see how many active users are there a day that actually builds a Bubble. I think that would be more interesting… People were spending like 30 minutes to an hour, a day on Bubble or more like, I feel like that would be way more interesting and give you a lot more insight in the kind of like who you're trying to attract than it would be.
Ryan Myher, founder and host from No Code No Problem, joins Jeremy in a maybe off the record conversation about podcasts, top no-code tools, the struggle to freemiums, and thin lines in the field.
Ryan Myher from No Code No Problem
Jeremy: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Hey,
Ryan Myher: [00:05:03] Okay,
Jeremy: [00:05:04] Ryan, are you there?
Hello? Hey, what's up? Hey, there he is. Ryan. How are you, man? Good. How are you, dude? Uh, what do you use to record your podcasts? Uh, like in terms of like what I use for like distribution and everything, like, Like in terms of audio what you record on like the software.
Ryan Myher: [00:05:33] Uh, Oh it was just yeah the speaker there, like
Yeah. I don't think I've heard of that one. What's that?
It's a, I found them they're an app, so, but they all, they obviously have desktop as well, but, uh, I'd found them whenever on browser I was first searching and they like pretty much covered everything. So in terms of like, I could record there, I could edit there.
I could, if I wanted to edit, I could edit there. And then, um, distribution, everything, they cover pretty much.
Jeremy: [00:06:03] How do you spell it?
Ryan Myher: [00:06:05] S P R E A K E R.
Jeremy: [00:06:08] Oh, got you. Okay. All right. Do they have like a, they have a web version of it?
Ryan Myher: [00:06:13] Yeah.
Jeremy: [00:06:14] Oh shit. I was having a hard time with like, this is the first one and a half times I'm using zoom to record the podcast.
I usually use cast. Do you know that one? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Have you liked it or have you tried it at all? I've
Ryan Myher: [00:06:33] never used it now. I just, a lot of people use it. It seems like in the podcast community. Cause I'm in a bunch of podcasts, Facebook groups. Now that
Jeremy: [00:06:44] So tell me this, is, this will be partly me getting to know you and part like that's what I love about the podcasting world.
And I'm just, I'm fucking hoping that this is recording. Right. So like, I believe it says recording. Does it say recording on your side? Um,
Ryan Myher: [00:07:10] there it is. Yeah.
Jeremy: [00:07:13] It says recording. Okay. All right. Um, we're just gonna, hope that I set it for like automatic recording. Going. Okay, cool. It's just going to fucking record. Um, the one thing I liked about TriCast though, was it records on each It records locally on each ends and then it puts it together later.
And I was like, ah, dude, it's a beautiful uninterrupted experience. So like where this is kind of, it's recording it at one time and like, If your internet sucks or my internet sucks or something happens, it's like, we're fucked. You know? So like you're my Guinea pig. I appreciate it. Ryan
Ryan Myher: [00:08:00] Spreaker. I think they plug into the Skype.
So I do any like, sort of like over the
Jeremy: [00:08:06] phone dude. Okay. I'm going to tell you this, like what is really easy about it? I mean, it's just like,
Ryan Myher: [00:08:17] You don't. I never have to leave speaker to like, do anything. It's just always there. Like, whenever you hang up on, like, whenever you stop recording it, like automatically has it in there, then you can edit it right away.
Like, I don't know. It's just super convenient. It seems like the podcast, like a lot of the different tools are like fragmented. So like you have to hop from tool to tool to actually like complete like the entire podcast, almost like Shopify, how, like you have to add a bunch of plugins to actually like have a complete store in a way, you know
Jeremy: [00:08:44] what I'm saying?
Oh, dude, that that is all right. Fine. Have you had any echo problems at all? But for some reason I plugged into my, I have an age six recorder and listen for all the listeners out there who are listening to this shit. This is one how you start a podcast. And too, he, Ryan has a podcast called no code. No problem.
So you've got to check that out. Okay. So like Ryan, give everyone a background instead of me and you talking about this pod, we will jump back into this fucking podcast software, for like, this is not boring business. So give everyone a little background on you and the no code, no problem podcasts.
Ryan Myher: [00:09:27] Yeah. So little bit about me.
I'm 21. So I just turned 21. So
Jeremy: [00:09:33] congratulations. Oh, during COVID
Ryan Myher: [00:09:35] I know. I didn't even get the party.
Jeremy: [00:09:37] That sucks, man. Yeah.
Ryan Myher: [00:09:40] That's all right. Um, but yeah, so I'm in Pittsburgh and I've been like, In not boring business for, you know, probably since I was like 17, 16, 17, 18, that's whenever I was kind of getting into stocks and stuff.
And then it's just been a transition from like different, like. Industries in a way. So I was like in the crypto space and then, you know, and I finally found my way to, uh,
no code and whenever I
was getting int o the code,
I was following makers like Joe, from new code. And then Ben Tossell from Makerpad
Jeremy: [00:10:11] Ben came on the pod.
Ryan Myher: [00:10:14] On this pod.
Jeremy: [00:10:15] Yeah, he came on last week. I just haven't released it yet.
Ryan Myher: [00:10:17] Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah. So Ben, I was following, um, both of them and I was like looking, I was sitting there one night and I like looked up no code and like Apple podcasts and Spotify. I couldn't find anything. So I messaged Joe on Twitter and I was like, Hey, I have this idea.
I want to start the no code podcast and I'm going to call no problem and I'm gonna do it. And he's like, yeah, do it. And then like I recorded that night and the next morning I published it and here we are today
Jeremy: [00:10:46] and you've grown like Dude because you are one of the first podcasts I see. When you go or when you search in Apple podcast for no, you just put no code and your shit pops right up.
Ryan Myher: [00:10:57] I shouldn't be number one. Yeah, I think so.
Jeremy: [00:10:59] So like, I'm telling you there's a huge fucking white space in no code right now. Right? Like there's just so much room and so much community to be built. What, when did you launch the podcast? Uh, November, December or November?
Ryan Myher: [00:11:14] The last week of October.
So like basically early
Jeremy: [00:11:19] of 2019.
Ryan Myher: [00:11:20] Yeah.
Jeremy: [00:11:21] So like, have you experienced, what have you experienced in that time as being a. young podcaster. How many episodes do you have?
Ryan Myher: [00:11:29] Yeah 33 as of a few days
Jeremy: [00:11:34] Nice Dude Like who's the coolest person you've had on that podcast.
Ryan Myher: [00:11:39] Ah the coolest, it's a hard question.
really great people.
I would have to say either Bram from no-code MVP. He's a cool, he's a filmmaker. He's done a lot of cool stuff. Okay.
Jeremy: [00:11:50] Um,
Ryan Myher: [00:11:51] JT, I thought JT was,
an interesting person he is like builds a lot of like projects using bubble and stuff and,
I thought it was
Jeremy: [00:11:59] 80 from no code,
Ryan Myher: [00:12:03] Yeah.
Jeremy: [00:12:04] Yeah. Cool.
Ryan Myher: [00:12:05] Yeah. So I like to have him on just because one of the big, one of the most popular tools in the no code space,
is product hunt. Right. And a lot of times like the no-code makers use product hunt, and then if they don't get the traction that they want, it's like a big turnoff for them, or it's a, it's great for them, but then it dies very fast.
So we really covered like, How product hunt. Shouldn't just be your like key sign and whether or not your product can be successful or not.
Jeremy: [00:12:36] I mean, do you think about that? So you're young. You're 21. I'm 32. So you've almost come out with just as many episodes as I have though. So like,
because I just, I need to, I struggle with the consistency bro You know what I mean? Like the consistency of doing it? No, it's not right. Like, like I found fucking echoes in a couple of my other podcasts on my side, but there, so I had to go back and like read and to transcribe them, rerecord my questions, put them in there and fucking, and I'm like, God damn it. I can't live this life.
You know what I mean? Like I got a fucking business to run. You know, like it's so hard, but like content and community is so important and so vital. So like what's one thing that you've, really, since starting the podcast or starting one of your companies,
I think you, you've got one company acquired, what was it?
I saw a job list or something.
Ryan Myher: [00:13:32] It was a job list. And it was like this international AI community that I'd built up.
Yeah, it was cool.
Jeremy: [00:13:37] Are you technical yourself?
Ryan Myher: [00:13:39] Uh,
in terms of no code. Yes.
Jeremy: [00:13:42] Okay. That's perfect. Right.
Ryan Myher: [00:13:43] but I know a little bit
HTML and stuff like that, but like nothing like a little bit of Python in terms of like data science stuff, but like very
minimal type stuff.
Jeremy: [00:13:57] Oh, absolutely. Like, I think it's, one thing where you're like, okay, I'm a no code founder. I, believe. Like, I'm not technical at all. Like, everything I've learned is just kind of like high level technical backend language, like language terms, maybe what they do kind of, but I don't even want to fucking code anything.
You know what I mean? I remember what was the first no code platform that you discovered as a no coder that was like, yeah, I love this. no-code shit. What was the first thing you kind of put together or made in no code? That was like the biggest turn on for you.
Ryan Myher: [00:14:43] Um,
It's like, there's two answers to that question. The first answer is whenever I was younger and I took an HTML class and then I went on and I discovered a Wix and I was like, Holy shit, fuck HTML. I can just do this on Wix. And it looks 10 times better.
I would have to say it was a glide
whenever I I'd made a part, basically what would happen was like, I'm obviously in school and in Pittsburgh, there's a lot of like houses and there'll be house parties. And I'm not like a huge part of your, by any means, but like I'm well known, like across campuses
Jeremy: [00:15:21] uh, BMOC. Oh, what a BMOC?
is that big man on campus?
Ryan Myher: [00:15:28] No. Definitely not.
that I'm not like in Greek life or anything like that. No, no, no, no,
no, no, no pin that on me,
uh, no. Uh, but yeah, so people would text me like every weekend they'd be like, Oh, like, what are you, what is there to do? What parties are there and stuff. And I just got really fed up with it. So I made this app and glad apps where people could like put the parties and, and all of that stuff. And it.
Like pulling in like free hundred users in the first weekend. And that was like, where I was like, Holy
shit, this is awesome.
Jeremy: [00:15:57] Wow. That's a hell of a magic moment. Yeah. Like was the magic moment though building it or getting the 300 people?
Ryan Myher: [00:16:09] it was,
Jeremy: [00:16:10] if I had to extract it from what you said, it was the getting 300 people was that.
Oh, but not necessarily like making the tool
Ryan Myher: [00:16:17] make like making, I called it fucked up. Okay. So making fucked up was awesome. It
Jeremy: [00:16:25] was like,
Ryan Myher: [00:16:25] Super cool. Because the only reason that I knew about glide apps in the first place was I saw an ad somewhere and I bookmarked it and was like, I may need this later on.
Like, I'll check it out later. And then whenever I got that text, it was like that moment. It was like, in my head, I was like, Oh, this is definitely like, I can build this on glide apps. So I went on and I built it like extremely fast within an hour. And I started putting it on like my Snapchat and
And, uh, and yeah, but then I just, whenever you build something like that, I feel like it just doesn't seem like didn't build it with real code. And I was like a first time maker with no, like a new cool tool, like glides. Like, are people actually gonna use this? Like, is this actually gonna work? Things like that?
Jeremy: [00:17:06] Yeah, sure. Like it, I guess that's part of the point with no-code right? Is you build something to throw it out into the ecosystem and you're like, cool. That was worth it. You know what I mean? Like if it gets the traction that you hoped or expected. Terrifi Oh my gods keep building. If it doesn't, it's like great, you didn't waste thousands of dollars hiring a developer or like you didn't waste months and months of your fucking time.
You know what I mean?
Ryan Myher: [00:17:35] Like,
Jeremy: [00:17:36] yeah, dude for me,
Ryan Myher: [00:17:38] what? No, sorry. No, you're good.
Jeremy: [00:17:39] Go ahead. Uh, for me the magic, I think the first one, I had no idea what fucking no code was like years ago, like four years ago or whatever. I, it wasn't really a thing then. Right? Like, um,
Ryan Myher: [00:17:50] it wasn't like termed
Jeremy: [00:17:52] now that like it just in the last year or two, maybe two years, it started to like, Maybe 12 fucking months, 12 to 18 months, it started really taking off in the hashtag on Twitter.
And all of a sudden, I know other people will fucking say different, but for me, the magic moment was, uh, when I discovered Zapier or Zapier, um, like four years ago, And I was like, this thing is the greatest tool of all time. Like being able to connect apps based on.
Actions and triggers and this kind of shit. I'm like, why it's like that to me was like in a lot of people in no code, don't have that magic moment. And do you want to know why? In my opinion, yep. Because of their technical people, most people in the no-code ecosystem right now, no most people in that are building the no-code tools are engineers.
Yeah. So like, I, I want to just open this up a tad bit to get your opinion on it. So like the, what we're building at the company is like the easiest, no code app builder. I'll send it to you and you can give me your opinion when we launch here in the next few weeks, like a mass launch. Um, so it's. It's funny to me that a lot of these tools, even the good design ones, like I like a dollar, a dollar is a good one.
Um, but they are so complex. They are complicated. Even a dollar brings in like the design changes and you're like, you're sitting here looking at three or four or five screens going. Uh, and I'm just like, I just want to drag something, see it populate and then see, like push it. That's it. I want to make it, I want to make it fucking four clicks and you can push an app to the store.
Right? So like we spent a bunch of fucking time at V1, like. Automating the app store push, automating, um, like what, like the good web builders, some of the good web builders do this, uh, like I think my favorite web builder, I think right now the newest one has to be card, you know, card. Yes. I love card. Oh, dude.
Bring in some of the ease of card to like the mobile piece, because like you mentioned glide, it's like, I'm still thinking, okay, you got to learn the schematics of like a Google sheet. Right. Like where it goes, where the tabs are, glide is really cool, but like a learning curve for it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I was like, we've got to focus on making a zero learning curve, Like these are full screen elements. Let's talk to them like they're nontechnical life. They're no coders and see how fast they can make shit and push it. So like, it was that to us was like that magic moment and a lot of other tech companies, or, sorry, no code tech companies, all the CEOs are technical people, all of them.
Right. Like, and it's weird to me that I think everyone, I think Emmanuel from bubble is coming on the pod. Uh, I think, I don't know this week later this week or something and. It's so funny to see that the longer these platforms are in existence, the more complicated they become. Right. So if you use bubble, have you used bubble?
Oh yeah, absolutely. So it has a, it has probably the steepest learning curve out of All our builders that I've seen, but it has the most functionality.
Ryan Myher: [00:21:20] Yeah. So
Jeremy: [00:21:23] with that, with more functionality and more customization comes a technical learning curve. So like at some point I believe in app builder just needs to be enough for a huge faction of people to do get in and go out. That's kind of what we focused on. What has been, what has been your favorite tool to essentially learn how to do and stay in? What do you build the most products with? Like as you're making or you hear about it in the ecosystem, or you have them on your podcast?
Ryan Myher: [00:21:58] Oh, probably bubble, honestly. Yeah. I would say bubble. Um, I think bubble is a great tool and it's, I think it's so funny. Like you keep talking about like technical, technical people and non technical people. And, uh, whenever I was like going out to market my,
that I just launched
Jeremy: [00:22:17] Oh you have an ebook. Yeah. Oh fuck.
Yeah, dude. What is it? Its
Ryan Myher: [00:22:22] podcast growth hacking zero place to five K and five months.
Jeremy: [00:22:26] Oh shit. Okay.
Ryan Myher: [00:22:27] Yeah. So, so I'm like, I was like going in, I was marketing this book out to like podcast hosts and there's these Facebook groups on obviously Facebook that have like 30 K plus people in it. And I didn't realize
Untechnical the majority of podcast hosts are like, we are
like, compared to them, we
are like really technical. people Yeah. Like, but then compared to people like Emmanuel and Jeremy in all these people from like Dollo and,
all these companies, like, we're obviously not technical, but it's just, it's funny to like see the playing field in which what we consider technical and what we consider, not technical.
It's like completely different person to person.
Jeremy: [00:23:05] I would agree.
Hello? Oh yeah. Are you there?
Ryan Myher: [00:23:14] Sorry. It just like cut out.
Jeremy: [00:23:15] Oh, no, sorry again, fucking zoom. See God damn it. Like here, I give you money to do this special podcast with Ryan and they fuck it up. So now I'm going to fucking, what's the one speaker. so tell me this. Who do you think so far has won the no-code space and what do you think it would take to like make a real, no real no-code startup is even at a billion dollar valuation.
I don't think, no. I think Webflow might be the closest.
Ryan Myher: [00:23:48] Yeah. it'll be interesting to see whether, I mean, we're talking about consumer side, but I think like a company like Unqork um, who does enterprise software, I feel like they might end up being the first
Jeremy: [00:24:02] that hit a bill evaluation. It's
Ryan Myher: [00:24:05] basically Bubble or it's enterprise software.
No clue. They're in New York and they like have all the top banks and stuff. I know that they do like
I can't get what banks they do, but like all of the top banks, Wells Fargo. And I went in the CMO and then their head of growth, like gave me a demo for it. it's clean, but it's, it's got a different interface and I know they're growing a lot and they told me that they're only gonna focus on the top 1%. So I don't know if that'll limit them or,
or what it will do, but
I would have to say it'll be either be web flow or bubble in my opinion.
Jeremy: [00:24:45] Yeah. Okay. So like I think bubble bubble, I remember.
What they do is, well, this is a secret, but I'm also, this is not boring business. I talked with an investor that had led one of bubble's rounds. And I mean, cause we're raising right now and it's so funny that she, or they were telling me that they struggled to convert freemium to paid. Right. Like, and. A dollar was kind of saying the same thing on when you came on my podcast, it's like they've got 20, 30,000 like freemium users at the same time.
Like I think they're only have, I think Jeremy from a Dolla was saying almost 400 paid. Right. So like we haven't even really launched and we have more than that. That's crazy. It's really, truly, truly, truly. I am focused on the nontechnical person, like when we build. So like, because I myself have built three, six figure, no code companies, not one fucking founder out there can say that thing.
Not one person who's built a no code builder can say that thing. So, like, I believe I'm the best visual one or visual builder, visual, whatever you want to call it is web flow, I think.
Ryan Myher: [00:26:10] Would you call bubble visual?
Jeremy: [00:26:12] No, it's probably not. It's not visual. Isn't it?
Ryan Myher: [00:26:15] Hmm, not really. I mean, it is, their design is like pretty, you know, I have you've used bubble right.
Jeremy: [00:26:25] A little bit. Yeah. Like, yeah. And I've done the kind of the onboarding and stuff.
Ryan Myher: [00:26:29] Yeah. They're they're designs like, all right. Nothing compared to Webflow.
and their logic, like whenever you're building out logic for your web app, it's like pretty simple.
biggest pain in the ass for me is like the responsiveness to mobile.
Like you build it all out on desktop and then you have to basically make it work in mobile. And it's just not
Jeremy: [00:26:48] very.
Ryan Myher: [00:26:50] Easy. It's a pain in the ass.
Jeremy: [00:26:52] It does a little, it does seem difficult, right? Like we've actually had some people come from bubble. And again, as much as I'm not, they're the, they're the legacy tool, right?
Like Bubble is the legacy app builder, probably the one with the most functionality, but in a lot of people in no-code space, will love it. But at the same time, there's a reason why they claim like 400,000 users and have a lot less than that paid. Right. So like, if you, if you think about the tools that are out there right now, right?
Like just in your experience and what you've been building and you think, okay, in order to get more people on bubble that are paying, it has to be easier. Right. Like people have to learn how to use this platform. So you either gotta make it zero learning curve. Right. So, because when I had 'a, on Noel from, uh, no-code HQ.
Um, yeah. And he was mentioning to me that like nontechnical people, right? Like that don't have much high motivation give up. Right. Like, and they go, uh, Oh, like we're focused on that problem. I think that, like, we don't want to make these complex. We want to try to take away the complexity. From the front end and that's all that matters.
So like, I don't know, like what have you in your experience, like, do you see these platforms having to dumb it down or do you never see that happening? Right. Like when I go on Webflow, dude, I'm somewhat, I know what things are. I know what a database is. I don't know how to structure it or anything, but like, even I was like, Oh, come on.
I just want to pay someone to do this.
Ryan Myher: [00:28:40] Yeah. And I think that's,
that's kind of where
the line meets between like those that are lazy and they want to build something, but they're too lazy to actually figure it out themselves and they want to pay, but they don't want to pay a lot
Jeremy: [00:28:53] to it.
Ryan Myher: [00:28:53] So
Jeremy: [00:28:54] it's like
Ryan Myher: [00:28:55] right in the middle.
Jeremy: [00:28:56] just,
Ryan Myher: [00:28:57] I, yeah, I don't know. I definitely, I think you're tackling one of the most challenging problems in the no code space in terms of like user conversion and getting those people that, like we just said, Aren't technical and aren't highly motivated, but they also don't want to spend like $4,000,
Jeremy: [00:29:15] correct?
Ryan Myher: [00:29:16] Yeah.
Jeremy: [00:29:17] Right. Like it, I don't know. That's the more, interesting problem. And maybe this is kind of ass backwards now that I'm getting some of your advice on here, but like thinking, Oh, cool. Is this worth nine bucks or is this worth, uh, like not, I don't give away anything for free. But like, we are going to come out with like a $9 a month plan, nine bucks, can sell everyone So like, if it's not worth $9 as a gamble to make this, like, I usually say, get the fuck out. Yeah. Or like, you're not a customer that's ever going to value anything you're going to build. Right. Like, I swear that as why all those people on like freemium models and the no-code ecosystem kind of focus on, um, I don't know, like what trends do you see with like the freemium models that are out there and what ones have you used and converted from freemium to paid?
Ryan Myher: [00:30:12] Uh, I've converted on bubble just because I like the idea of being able to, because if something's going to take me like three months to build, it's nice. Cause they're their plans $29 a month. So it's nice to be able to build it out and then run over. You're ready to actually get on users and do custom domain and stuff.
Then you can convert. Right? I think the issue with like bubble and
tools like this are the
fact that one, like you said, Mmm, they're going on. And there is like the high learning curve, so they don't want to stay on, but also, which I think it may be more of, this is the fact that people just want to like try it.
So they they're like, Oh, you can actually build this with no code. So they create an account. Do like the little map tutorial that bubble has whenever you get on. And then that's the last time they
Jeremy: [00:30:56] touch it. Yeah, right.
Ryan Myher: [00:30:59] I would be interested to see how many active users there are a day that actually builds a bubble.
I think that would be more interesting
Jeremy: [00:31:06] than just a registered user. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Ryan Myher: [00:31:10] People were spending like 30 minutes to an hour, a day on bubble or more like, I feel like that would be way more interesting and give you a lot more insight in kind of like who you're trying to attract than it would be.
Just to say that there's 400,000 users.
Jeremy: [00:31:23] Yeah, no, I agree with that. Yeah, that's true because I think that's the number they claim, right? Like 400,000 users.
Ryan Myher: [00:31:31] It's 400,000
Jeremy: [00:31:33] dude. I don't know. I feel like I would rather have 40,000 paid users. Right. Like in claim 40,000 paid users then like, but I know everyone does that.
It's like someone registers once and you're like, dude, we've got 2 million people on. Yeah. But like 2000 people are paying us. I don't know. Meanwhile, you have all these people that are just like kicking the tires. Right. Like you, but you bruh, you bring up a good point that most of those people probably won't be using on the daily basis.
Yeah. So that's an interesting,
Ryan Myher: [00:32:05] I like the idea that, like you said, not having a free version, just going with a $9 version, just
Jeremy: [00:32:10] because.
Ryan Myher: [00:32:11] Odds are, if people are just coming on your platform to check it out, they're not going to pay, you know what I'm saying? And that cuts out a lot of like the bullshit that you experienced and to via email and all the other
Jeremy: [00:32:21] sort of shit.
Yeah. So I thought about this. I thought literally making the site, the entire site, just going, everyone wants a mobile app. We think it should be easy as fuck. Literally build your home screen for free. Right? So you go on, you click it. You, you don't even have to sign up. For an account. Right? Okay. But you bill, you can drag and drop your things, see how they populate, see how you can like, just make it and go.
Oh cool. We might even let people, I don't know if we can let them push to Tesla, whatever. I'm workshopping this with you now, but like you go on and you build that screen, that one screen, if you want to save it, do anything else. It's just the magic of the builder and how easy it is. It demonstrates it.
Then you pay the nine bucks. I like that. Yeah. You don't even register. You don't even give an email. You don't do anything outside of going in testing how it is and then going, wow, this looks cool. Oh yeah. That's awesome. You just giving it a try? You don't even have, we don't even call, I think card doesn't collect email, right?
Ryan Myher: [00:33:27] Whenever you're first building. I don't believe so.
Jeremy: [00:33:31] Yeah. I think it's like when you sign up for a pro or something,
Ryan Myher: [00:33:35] you're trying to create essentially the mobile app version of card
Jeremy: [00:33:38] almost. Yeah. Card has been my favorite, like, dude, it's, you know, their whole mission is like it's one page websites. Yeah.
Right. So like we wanted to focus on five-page apps, right? Like essentially you have five icons at the bottom of a, of a menu bar. Right. And you're like, if you're going beyond five, six screens, You're beyond something most people want to create anyway, in order to get those million people that will pay nine bucks, right?
Like it's gotta be so good. It's gotta be stupid. He know who, what no code platform, what's the most used no code platform that you know of that you've heard that you've researched. Like, is it web flow bobble? I know Zapier has, is in the millions of users.
Ryan Myher: [00:34:28] If we're, if we're getting granular, it's Google sheets.
Jeremy: [00:34:33] There you go. That's a good one. That's a good nod, boy. That's a good outside of the box question, Ryan, or answer. That's a good one. Like, but
Ryan Myher: [00:34:41] if we're going like legit, I would say it has to be one of these legacy apps. I don't think like it's going to be like a
Jeremy: [00:34:47] Wix or a
Ryan Myher: [00:34:49] Squarespace or trying to think of, I mean, WordPress, even.
Jeremy: [00:34:54] Oh, yeah. WordPress that's monstrous, right? Yeah. Like WordPress is like, WordPress is the old school fucking no code, you know, like it, and people don't really put it in there cause it's not the coolest or the sexiest. Right. Like not a lot of stuff has been, have you built with WordPress?
Ryan Myher: [00:35:13] Yeah. That's what AI jobs this was built on.
Jeremy: [00:35:16] Oh, got you. Okay, dude. That's amazing. So tell me this. So you ate the AI jobs list, right? Build it on, built it on WordPress. And I want to get to like acquiring your first customer. Cause you obviously accepted this. You paid, you had paying customers, right? Yeah.
Ryan Myher: [00:35:32] We had. Well, we didn't have people. I didn't have people paying to submit a products or not products, but job posts, I just did sponsorships.
So I got people paying. Yeah. So like, if they were a job and they were looking for, or if it was a company and they were looking to like, get in front of more eyes, I could pay to be at the top.
Jeremy: [00:35:54] Oh, got you. Okay. Yeah.
Ryan Myher: [00:35:56] The mission of AI jobs essentially was like, because it was this international community, it was in like, With the movement of remote, it was basically like a remote forward AI jobs, because most AI, like most jobs that involve AI are going to be like, you know, coding and Python or, or something of that nature.
So you don't necessarily need to be at an office to do that.
Jeremy: [00:36:20] Yeah, sure. I get that.
Ryan Myher: [00:36:22] The catchphrase is borderless opportunity
Jeremy: [00:36:26] cause there's no borders cause it's remote. Exactly. Okay. Well, I love that. And I love the fact that you started that when you were what fucking 19.
Ryan Myher: [00:36:35] No, I was 19.
Jeremy: [00:36:36] Come on, dude. And you were ma how much money were you making with this?
Ryan Myher: [00:36:41] Oh, not a lot. It was just, I only made a few hundred bucks.
Jeremy: [00:36:43] Yeah. Like in total. Yeah. So hot, crazy. And that is, that's what I love to get focused on though. Right. So like, I think if you get to people making money in no-code, which is what the hashtag no code CEO is, right. CEO's jobs are to make fucking money.
Right. Um, so for me, I think you get more people building. If you make it simpler, And you make it simpler to make money with it. Cause it's like, it's very hobbyist right now. It's very like I'm going to go or you're making something for a client or something. But at the same time, cause you've seen like, um, you've almost seen bubble agencies out there.
Ryan Myher: [00:37:23] one of them.
Jeremy: [00:37:24] Yeah. I'll I'll okay. So like this is something and you're like cool. At one, if there's agencies around something, imagine how technical it is. Right. Yeah. Um, and then too, it's being able to get people to the point where they're actually making money with it. That is another real magic moment.
So like you making even a few hundred bucks, you're going, ah, I love this fucking I'm gonna, you would, if you spent 20 bucks a month on a platform and made a hundred a month, you would always ma you would always have that $20 subscription. Right? Exactly. So like, It's getting people to making money with it.
How did you get those first jobs on? Right. Cause that's the biggest struggle is
Ryan Myher: [00:38:08] lots of fucking emails.
Jeremy: [00:38:09] Yay. There we go. Lots of fucking emails. So like where did you find the emails? What was your target market? Give me, give me tactical. How did you get them on there? Get the traffic and then get your first sponsors.
Ryan Myher: [00:38:23] Yeah. So I was building while I was building the actual platform and I was, I had an Upwork freelancer, who's doing some sort of some custom PHP
Jeremy: [00:38:31] work on it.
Ryan Myher: [00:38:32] Um, and so while I was getting that finished up, I was on Twitter, just fucking hustling, basically what I do on with the new code of problems, Twitter.
Um, and I was just kind of really going hard and. Attacking the AI community and just trying to keep people engaged. And then that way, whenever I did lots of site, I would have traffic. And then in terms of like getting jobs on, I was just literally scouring the web,
Jeremy: [00:38:57] uh, for
Ryan Myher: [00:38:58] any companies related to AI or not related to AI, but like, So like for an example is I'm in Pittsburgh.
So one of the companies that's here that are like, huge is PPG, which is it's a paints company, but they still hire like AI and machine learning positions. So email, like there's just so many AI and machine learning positions that people don't even realize that are at like, Normal ass companies like paint companies.
Jeremy: [00:39:22] So like
Ryan Myher: [00:39:23] basically just sending emails to all of them, either fucking huge spreadsheets. And it was whenever I first, whenever I send out that first like
Jeremy: [00:39:30] email for people to put it on,
Ryan Myher: [00:39:31] it was actually a really shitty response. I had like maybe 10 people respond. And actually put them on, but yeah, but it grew.
And then I was just like tired of doing it. Cause at the same time I was working at a startup called worry hash.
Jeremy: [00:39:44] Okay. It was,
Ryan Myher: [00:39:45] it was a decentralized exchange for hashing
Jeremy: [00:39:47] power. Okay.
Ryan Myher: [00:39:48] And so I would run that Twitter and stuff. And
Jeremy: [00:39:53] you were the social media marketer.
Ryan Myher: [00:39:55] Sort of, it was just kind of marketing in general.
Jeremy: [00:39:59] just
Ryan Myher: [00:40:00] like strategy, getting new users. Yeah. It was all that shit, but I just also ran the Twitter and just because I'm like, One of my favorite things to do is run Twitter's for companies and like build the community around them.
Jeremy: [00:40:13] Oh yeah. So that's just you freelance for that?
Ryan Myher: [00:40:16] Nope. No.
Jeremy: [00:40:18] Okay.
Ryan Myher: [00:40:18] Got you.
Yeah. I mean, if somebody like came to me and like, pitched me on it, then sure. I might, but it's not like I would like go out and I'm trying like sell myself to do that. You know what I'm saying?
Jeremy: [00:40:27] Well, I could hire you cause I need that. Let's fucking do it. I'm dead serious. No one knows the no-code space better than you.
So like, I mean the community, right? Like you run the no code, no problem podcast. I mean, and that's the one thing we've lacked. So we've kind of been in beta for the last, maybe 11 months. But like, and did I tell you were in Jason? Calacanis his launch accelerator. So like right now we're kind of building the no code CEO brand as the community behind what we're doing, like, um, where we'll have a marketplace and all these other things for like no coding and do it.
It's the community though that's being built is like, everyone is so helpful and no-code. Right. Like, it's not about it. Doesn't feel like it's about competition, right? Like it feels like it's about just getting awareness around no-code so, yeah. I don't know. Are there any trends that you would, you would see that going forth?
Like where do you think no code? And we can, we can end on this one, but like, where do you think no code goes from here? And how big do you think it can get.
Ryan Myher: [00:41:42] Yeah. So I think that no code, I think there's going to be, so right now I feel like we're in middle territory. I think that we're going to see two kinds of branches emerged from no code, one being even more technical tools.
So like an advanced bubble. So
Jeremy: [00:41:58] have you heard of builder? I have not heard of builder.
Ryan Myher: [00:42:01] Okay. Builder
Jeremy: [00:42:02] is like, like a bubble essentially, but
Ryan Myher: [00:42:04] their motto
Jeremy: [00:42:05] is
Ryan Myher: [00:42:05] they built builder with builder.
Jeremy: [00:42:09] So they
Ryan Myher: [00:42:09] literally booked built the NOCO tool that they have with the NOCO tool, so super powerful stuff. Um, and they are in beta too, and they should be opening it up to more people, I believe in two and a half weeks.
I just talked to Mark.
Jeremy: [00:42:24] Oh, wow.
Ryan Myher: [00:42:25] But yeah, so there's going to be like this,
Jeremy: [00:42:27] uh,
Ryan Myher: [00:42:28] One brands that gets like super technical
Jeremy: [00:42:30] and makes a bubble look like a
Ryan Myher: [00:42:32] piece of cake. And then there's also going to be the branch, which I think you are attacking. And that is the branch of like super easy zero learning curve,
Jeremy: [00:42:40] build what you want.
Ryan Myher: [00:42:41] And then I feel like it's just going to be the progression of people moving from the super simple tool. And then once they outgrow it, just moving along,
Jeremy: [00:42:49] dude, that might be the biggest, interesting insight, dude. You're brilliant that I think, I don't think I've ever heard that before. Like, as I questioned people and brought them on, like, that's a great, that's a great insight.
Ryan Myher: [00:43:04] you. I guess
Jeremy: [00:43:05] you're welcome. I guess. So dude, uh, Ryan, where can people find you? Where can, where can they go use some of your tools, your community, and then you'll obviously you will in slight time be running our community stuff. I can already tell. So where do people find you?
Ryan Myher: [00:43:23] So you can find me, uh, at, on Twitter.
That's where I'm. Most popular, and that is at no code, no problem. Or you can get me on my website. I have an email form and stuff on there, and it's www.nocodepodcast.co. And you'll, you'll be able to find all the platforms that the podcast is on there too. And if you want to hear Jeremy on the podcast, then.
You got to come and, and Jeremy is going to be on no code, no problem. He actually just found this out, but you know, we have to cross pony audiences. That's what we're doing.
Jeremy: [00:43:54] Isn't that for sure. That is for sure. Like, think about all the people at say like a thousand people will probably hear this and then I don't know a fraction of those people will come on yours and then I'll come on.
You. Absolutely. This is the community, man. So
Ryan Myher: [00:44:08] we're building it right now.
Jeremy: [00:44:10] God damn it. He is Ryan Meyer. Yes, sir. And thank you. Did I?
Ryan Myher: [00:44:16] Yeah.
Jeremy: [00:44:17] You killed it, man. Okay. We were destined to work together, so thanks so much for coming on, man. Thank you
Ryan Myher: [00:44:26] for having me. I loved it.