Jeremy: Um, I guess, I guess it will just do John a pollen.
John Apolinar: Yes. Nailed it.
Jeremy: do you say it fast? Like John R?
John Apolinar: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Jeremy: okay. So John a polymer.
. And do you ever get like a, a poll and R.
Yeah, I get a
John Apolinar: kind of sound Applewood. I don't know how they mix that up.
Jeremy: That's going off of memory.
That's that's being like, Oh fuck. No, he looks like an
John Apolinar: Applewood does not
see for effort B minus execution.
Jeremy: Oh wait, bro. I also saw that you do something for inside.
John Apolinar: So I'm on the sales team at inside, um, which is, uh, one of Jason Calacanis companies.
Jeremy: man, I, I always wondered what the fuck inside is because we were in his cohort last summer.
Okay. Lunch. Yeah. We were in launch. Uh, and do you deal with him directly?
John Apolinar: Um, yeah, I think, you know, not too much, um, So I, I deal with our CRO who is Kevin Curry and he, he more so like deals with Jason directly.
Jeremy: Got you. Okay. Yeah. I love that. I didn't. How big is inside the
John Apolinar: company? Do you we've grown, man. I think we're at like full-time employees.
I want to say we're at like right around like 15, no way. Yeah. I mean, it's mostly on like the editorial team. Um, we have like a pretty large team of. Business researchers and our analysts that are like putting together these different, um, like newsletters that they curate and publish subscribe. I think you'd like inside business, um, that one's fire inside no-code is pretty good too.
Jeremy: Are we on that as V1 on that B
John Apolinar: one's been mentioned a few times on inside. No-code.
Jeremy: Man, damn it. I wonder where all these leads are coming from. I'm not tracing. Do you know what I'm telling you? Dude, like building a fucking company is insane. You know what I mean? Like, and I mean, clearly we will get into what you're doing and like I had, no, I forgot that you were at an inside.
I did know that I, I did remember that like being on your Twitter, but like, and then I was thinking to myself, dude, I like investors will call them to me the T top tier. Fuckers will come to me and be like, uh, what are you doing? What do you do to do that? And I'm like, dude, think of us as a pre-seed company.
Well, you've got traction, like series a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Think of us as a pre-seed company. Well, why is that? Because I don't have any of our shit together. You know what I mean? Like, and I don't really care right now. Right? Like I'm trying to find like the right, like they go, Oh, so what, what Anil analytics do you have on the end users of your customers?
And I'm like, bitch, I don't have. I don't have fucking analytics on our customers right now. You know what I mean? So it's like, I'm
John Apolinar: not going to have analytics on who I think is going to be a customer. I don't even have any analytics on our customers
Jeremy: seriously. Right. So like, for me, it's all about like knowing where you're at in what stage, and like, I just want people to have that kind of like frame and reference.
So like knowing how hard it is to do something and knowing, um, like if you're building it by yourself or with a co-founder, there's that dynamic. So what are you building? John Paul and
John Apolinar: I am building a job board specifically for the video game space.
Jeremy: So leaderboard jobs
John Apolinar: as it yet, and airport jobs. That's the name of it?
Um, dot com. Yep. Leaderboard jobs.com
Jeremy: built it on
John Apolinar: web flow. Um, and yeah, it's, it's a job board serving the video game space. Um, [00:04:00] so, you know, once I have the traffic in place, I can, I can monetize it, uh, you know, via a job postings and B um, advertising.
Jeremy: Do you have the job board connected to anything like connected to an API that populates them?
John Apolinar: No. So that's, that's, it's hard to figure out, man. Like I've just been putting them in manually. I have like an Integra mat somewhere like to where, if someone like enters a job board from my type form populate. But other than that, like nothing, like I'm just searching on LinkedIn, searching on the internet and then copy and pasting and yeah.
Putting it into web flow.
Jeremy: So why do you, why do you use Integra Matt over Zapier? I've always been trying. I've always wondered.
John Apolinar: Yeah, because Zapier won't work. Right. I can't get it to populate the, the, the job postings.
Jeremy: Oh, interesting. I wonder what I know. Integromat. Matt does like the, they do like a, it was a little more complicated for me.
It's a little more technical. I feel, I feel you could probably do more. I mean, my I've always just considered myself like a Zapier with like, it's obviously it was it's the biggest one. Right, but like Integra, I liked their UI and how you kind of like make it like the icon and then you can move it around and you've got that visual, you know, that's kind of fun.
Um, but yeah, like w uh, so is this your first no code push? How did you get into no-code?
John Apolinar: It is my first one. Um, I got into it working at inside. I would just see our inside no-code newsletter. I had no idea, like what the hell the space was. And just some of the things these people were making were just like, so cool to me that I was seeing on the news and I was like, damn, like, I want to learn how to do that.
I want to learn how to make something. So, um, I ended up right when my core, uh, quarantine hit for like COVID I ended up, um, doing just the a hundred days of no-code challenge.
Jeremy: Oh, okay. Yeah. So last spring or whatever it was.
John Apolinar: Yeah. Yeah. It was like last, I want to say, like I got into it around like may. Okay.
Um, but yeah. Do you did the a hundred days of NOCO challenge? I built just like a few simple things. And then, um, it found web flow and had like this idea. I was like, Oh, like, what if I learned web flow to make a job board for the video game space? And that's where I am now.
Jeremy: And you haven't yet monetize
John Apolinar: it?
No, no. I mean, I've gotten like two customers that have paid to post a job, but like, yeah, nothing
Jeremy: substantial. Okay. So tell me this. How did that feel to get that first dollar in like that, that you build something with fucking no code. And now you've got a paint cut. One painting. How did that feel?
John Apolinar: Dude? I was stoked.
I literally was like, no way. Like I got the, um, I got the text from Stripe that someone paid. Yeah. I was like, no way. And like, I've looked at my email and I was like,
Jeremy: Oh man, I just [00:07:00] got a first customer. Like, let's go. That is the fucking gold stamp. Like if you feel, if you feel that way. Okay. If you don't have that feeling, when you launch something, you are not an entrepreneur, get the fuck out game like that is when you know that you are an entrepreneur to me.
Like when you dude. I say, when I see Stripe on my Apple watch, when I feel that vibration better than sex,
John Apolinar: I definitely had like that euphoric high toll on my friends. I told my mom right away, I was like, mom, guess
Jeremy: what? Nice. See, you're meant to do this. So mom was stoked. What was, what was some of, what are your, some of your challenges like that?
You're seeing kind of a no-code. And like that you're seeing in like the ecosystem right now that you're cause you're, you're relatively new to it. Right. But like, no code has like a term as even relatively new. So like, what are some of the things you like and don't like about, uh, the no code ecosystem and no no-code Twitter right now.
John Apolinar: Um, the things I do, like the community, like the community is rad. Um, everyone is super helpful and just like super down to like collaborate and help. I've I've done a few posts up where I'm like, Hey, like I'm stuck on Webflow. I can't find the answers like this is what I'm running into and people have like helped me out, uh, just randomly that I didn't even know.
Um, gotcha. Yeah. So the community is definitely awesome. Um, it definitely has, you know, I feel like a lower barrier of entry just to make something, whether it's an app or, uh, you know, some type of site with like a. A CMS built into it. That's not WordPress. Um, you know, it wasn't like that hard to figure out and I'm not technical at all.
So there's that, um, some of the things I don't like, or like, I feel when it comes to like monetizing [00:09:00] stuff, there's no, like, I don't want to say like clear path, but there's no like, like, you know, clear understanding of like, How to go from point a to point B DPF. It's like, Oh, you're making money. Like, no, like there's all these steps in between.
Like what the hell are those steps and how do I do them?
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you there. Like I think, I think part of that is like, why, so in March, we're coming out with like this, like a revenue, like how to monetize. No-code like, and it's going to be straight, straight up. No fucking bullshit. Like it's like, there are no steps.
Like when I first started to monetize, you probably had a better experience than me, but I was like, bah, I bet there, you shouldn't be above begging when you're starting a business. Right. So like, I think people who are learning no code right now, also, like are also having to learn the principles of business.
Yes. Like starting something, which is, if you can't beg people to use your stuff before it takes off, it's like, ah, get out of here. You know what I mean? Like, and it just real concrete steps. Um, and I've actually, I, you know what, I'd actually love your opinion over the next few weeks. I'd love to jump on a call off of this to get your opinion on this court.
How you think about as like a, like a newbie to no-code I'd love to get your opinion. We'll do that. Um, so, uh, I actually think that like so many people don't like, if you can't get someone to monetize what they're building. We're not going to stick with it because it's so difficult. Right. So like, and then if you don't put the right amount of effort in, it's not going to take off anyway.
So like where do you see like, like drawing the gap between, uh, like it actually being a side hustle and, and how long would you stay with it? If it was only making little amounts of money. So like, do you love it? What do you, how do you see that picture? Coloring them lines?
John Apolinar: Yeah. You know, luckily I'm stubborn.
Like I just don't give up on things if I like set my sights on it. And you know, for me, like if I have to plug away at this damn job board for like two years, like I don't care. Um, that's totally, like, I've just always been too stubborn to quit, which is bit me in the ass a few times, but great. Hopefully it works out this time.
Jeremy: No, I, I think you're, I think you're right. And I think you're onto something. Yeah.
John Apolinar: Um, so there's that, but like, I, I really, you know, like some of the, the gaps are there's like that, that general business sense and, and knowing all these other things that tie into no-code like, like content and SEO. And monetization, like you have to figure out all this stuff to make it like a viable business that exists outside of the no-code realm, right?
Jeremy: Correct. I agree with you. I think, I think it's just like longterm. If you like, I hear from investors all the time, man. It's like the same shit from everyone. Did new questions. Do you know what I
John Apolinar: mean for ask you an entertaining question? Like, have you got a good question?
Jeremy: No, dude. No. It's like dude, most of them.
Okay. So yes. And those are the people that I let in to our funding. Right? Like they're interesting. And they're interesting people I'm telling you, people look at money as just growing the business. If you look at getting money to just grow the business on that, it's not for me. I'm telling you, I need you to entertain me.
I'm stuck with your ass for 10 years. I'm stuck with you, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, man. Right. It's like 10 years at the minimum. I'm stuck with you. So it's like, and I got to talk to you every month, at least. Can you imagine not enjoying the person that you're, that you have to have that relationship with?
Exactly. So like, Dude. So many people get like, they, they get so wrapped up in that. I just fucking, I fly right. Distasteful for me. Um, so yeah, it's all about entertaining for me. Like, it's all about like, how can you entertain me? Because I know I'm good. I know I'm I know our company will grow, right. Like, I, I know if I have the resources, but like I'm not going to build a company based on needing funding.
Like I would like to get, I would like to prove the value to customers and get more, more customers and more revenue that way, you know? So like, that's why I've built three, six figure no-code companies, because it's like
John Apolinar: you said one, I'm going to build multiple.
Jeremy: Yes. Right? Yeah, dude, because I know you're I know the pain of it not being non-technical I know you're like being in your shoes and I don't think anyone else on planet earth can say they feel.
Three six-figure no-code companies. I don't something, but that's the reason why we're doing this course that, um, you should probably do. And we'll, I'll give, I'll give your opinion and I'll give you a fucking, we'll let you in. So like, um, uh, we'll do that. And then one, one last thing from this conversation, cause you're clearly, you clearly got the personality.
You clearly are. You're an actor. You're an actor, right? Do you consider yourself an actor? Yeah. So this is one of the more entertaining ones I get to do. Um, Oh, what is the biggest piece of advice for a no-code or starting out sticking with it? Um, something that you would, you would like to pass on to other people building non-technical things.
John Apolinar: Hmm. That's a good, okay. I would say, let me give me like two seconds to think on it.
Jeremy: I can stall.
John Apolinar: Man, I would say, um, like find out it [00:15:00] is like what you want to do longterm, you know, there's, there's so many different platforms with no code in so many different avenues and directions you can go, but where do you want to be stuck?
Like for five years in the trenches, slogging it out. Like, what does that business look like?
Jeremy: Mm. Yeah. So if you have that long again, Would you be deterred if I was like, or have you been determined since I've been real with you? No. Right. So if I'm real with like, dude, you gotta cry about it. You gotta, you gotta be passionate about it.
You got to like all this stuff where it's like, it's hardest, it's a disease, you know, like, and you go, yup. And I love it. You will succeed, dude. I hope. No, I hope now I'm now going to force you to succeed because, um, I enjoyed this conversation. So, uh, with that, thank you so much, dude, for coming on and you're going to have to come back on and we're going to have to touch
John Apolinar: base in the next couple of weeks.
Okay. Yeah, I'm down, man. Thank you for having me, dude. I, uh, you know, hats off to you and your, your multiple no-code businesses and stoked for you, man.
Jeremy: Thank you. Where can people find you?
John Apolinar: You can find me on Twitter at it's John to and R I T S J O H N a P O L I N a R. That's the best place.
Jeremy: Well, thanks so much, John, for coming out.
John Apolinar: had a blast. Yeah, likewise man. And best of luck and down to sync again in a few weeks. Awesome. Thanks brother. All right. Take care.