Jeremy: Sad sad. How are you friend?
Seth Fannin: Hey, good man. Thanks for having me appreciate
Uh, we were just talking about like right off the bat, right about tr uh, not necessarily trends, but where no code is going. And I was asked by, um, someone at clear bank, right. Because we deal with Clare bank and I was like, They, they asked me where I saw no code what the future, no code was.
Right. And I've started to notice a trend that I don't think, well, I just don't believe in general that people will stick with something difficult if they're not making money from it. Right. Like you're not going to like building the products. Cool. How about monetizing? It. Right. There is a
Seth Fannin: defense, um, huge difference in, uh, um, you know, no code.
It has obviously grown so much since, you know, the early days. Right. And you're seeing more makers. Um, you know, I, I feel that there's, there's a couple of different, you know, groups of, you know, these makers, you know, there's makers that are young, that don't have any work experience, uh, uh, maybe like, uh, the actual business experience or something, you know, like in the real world working.
You know, but, um, but they have, you know, this tech savvy ability to come in and, you know, just, just learn these tools and, you know, especially with Twitter, you know, you do get thrown into the, uh, the startup and the bootstrapping world, because I feel that those are kind of intertwined now. Right. We're seeing it has to be, it has to be right, so that, you know, to monetize it's one thing.
And that's one of the things I wanted to bring up actually is, um, it's one thing to like, um, To build a product, but it's another thing to build a business.
Jeremy: Yup. What would be your, what would be your, one of your biggest takeaways to, uh, helping people build a business you might be going in
Seth Fannin: going in that direction, right?
Yeah. I'm on the same path for me, you know, unfortunately for me, it's, it's, it's very, it's a little different and um, I, I've never worked in startups. I'm trying to become a product manager and work in startups, but. You know, I I've really had to, um, leverage no code, you know, to try to build that gap because I'm coming from the defense space enterprise space, you know, so it's been very, you know, it's its own challenge, you know, so I would really give to, uh, no coders the first time.
Um, especially when, you know, just entering and learning about the overwhelming amount of tools to use is, um, To really not aim for a business at the start, just, just build products and, you know, focus on those skills needed to, you know, really build these products, especially with the amount of tools there are, you know, design, marketing, building an audience and learning how to talk to people and communicate with people.
You know, online is a really big
Jeremy: key, you know? Ooh, that's a good, I think that's a great segue into my next point, which is how do you see, I think building your community is really, is really great. So like, I think a lot of times people need to pick a path, right. Are you going to build that product or are you going to build that community?
Because really only the lucky few get to blend both. Right? Like if you notice that in. No code Twitter where like I'm noticing, it seems to be dude the same people like celebrating the same people. Right? Like, I don't see like a new to note, like new code. I see the same people posting about code. It's like the same, like 12 people, you know, like what's it going to take for?
What, what would it take for someone and what would it take for someone to know code to. Uh, become the cream that rises to the top.
Seth Fannin: Well, you know, and I think that has to do with the online presence right now. That's really popular is the building public everybody's, you know, you know, there's a lot of controversial, I guess, views on it, you know?
Um, it's, it's a really great thing, you know, if you know how to leverage it. Well, I think it really does help to, you know, have those, uh, those people around you. But, uh, but, but right now, I mean, if you, you know, to get out in front of people, The things I'm seeing from other makers. And that I wish I had the time to do is, you know, you're, you're seeing those same people that are on top.
Um, and the things about, uh, that make those people stick out or, um, just, just basically taking action leverage, you know, and they're always taking action instead of things,
Jeremy: fall to action
Seth Fannin: action. Yeah. About taking action and learn by doing,
Jeremy: you know, yeah. It's constantly. It's constantly building and iterating and coming back to the point, right?
Like, do you believe people need to stick to one platform? Like, like you obviously have like the glue tools, like Zapier or integrity, right? Like, but do you believe people stay with one builder or one website builder app builder? What do you think.
Seth Fannin: Yeah. So I was going to speak on that too. It's important because I think project selection and tool selection are important because I feel that, you know, it's good to try new tools.
I mean, there's the shiny object effect w you know, it it's good, but I, I feel that with no code, it depends on your goals. If you're just building for fun. Sure. It goes to trust some tools. But if you find tools that you're really good at, or you have a leg up on something, you use those tools and try to use the minimal amount of tools to get the most output.
If you're trying to especially monetize and sell like a business, you know, um, it, it really takes some experimental practice and, and use, especially with distribution. You know, you gotta think about, especially if you're building a business. You got to think about the customer, you know, your target market, um, make it easy for them to, to obtain that product also, you know, and I
Jeremy: think that's where, you know, yeah, right.
You don't need so many tools, right? You'd need, you need more of what you were talking about. Uh, and the later piece, which is the go-to market stuff. You need to know who you're building for a lot of times, people go into any tool and that's the thing, that's the one thing at V1 I'm trying to like, dude, cause like I love building a business.
I don't love building product.
You will get to my level on the 100% sure. Like, cause I love your fucking Twitter hustle. Um, and you seem to be jamming on shit, dude. Like, and off record here. Well, Well, we'll have to get into some, some more shit. We'll have to have you come back. Um, so
Seth Fannin: yeah, I really think it's about the tools and how you actually use them.
You know, I think that, you know, a lot of people just always want to, you know, try a new shiny object effect. And I think that, that, that the people in general have that problem. That's just humans, you know?
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah. Right. No, that's what I mean. So like you got to get some buy-in as a tool. Like when we launched dude, we don't have a freemium version.
Right. So like, and we're very open and transparent with this, which is like to the point where we're like, cool, if you D you're buying to stick with us for 12 months, like this is a journey that you're on, that we're on. We'll help you as much as again, don't get fucking upset in a month or two. This is a 12 month journey.
Right. So it's like, you're going to, so I almost discouraged from people just signing up to sign up for another tool. Right. Like now at the beginning, I'm very open about that. Right. So like, we'll have a freemium version may maybe in the future, but like, how do you go about like selecting a tool, right?
Like when you started on your no-code journey, what is something that spoke to you with like a landing page builder?
Seth Fannin: It will. Yeah. And that kind of comes back to the good point. Um, like it, you know, and I did think that, you know, for, you know, using no code is one thing and then trying to build like, you know, a startup and.
Kind of what that entails, you know, like I think that, you know, um, you really got to think about what you're building and not get into the weeds because I see it, you know, that, uh, you know, some of these tools you can easily overbuild. And I actually did that with doc drove, you know, like for the school.
Um, I started, uh, it's built with Webflow. But for example, I could have actually gone simpler. I could have gone with the card landing page because I later pivoted to a Gumroad offering because I found
Seth Fannin: wow, that is the best distribution and Airtable database with this information right there for you easily distributed through them road instead of using member stack and trying to build a login web functionality into web flow.
So I li I learned my lesson, you know, about doing that. I stuck with live flow. Yeah,
Jeremy: dude. Yeah, it is about getting a quick, the simplest version out, right? Like in my belief is you get that simple version out and you start to monetize that simple version. Like the best customer feedback ever is customer dollars, man.
You know what I mean? Like if someone is willing to give you $2, two bucks for that thing, you get that they see value in that a lot of value before they even right before the incentive. So like, what are, what's one of those tools, right? Like, uh, like the first process that you went back, how long did you actually build that first thing before?
You're like, Whoa, I overbuilt. How long were you doing it? You know
Seth Fannin: what I actually, yeah. I probably took a good two weeks because, you know, it's, it's one thing to be close to your product, but you can get too close to your product to where you're like, Oh, wow. I haven't really leveraged feedback from my inner circle.
And I'm like, you don't even realize it. It's almost like a, like, you. Like, it's crazy. It's almost like a, um, uh, it's kind of hard to say, but, um, yeah, I get it. I get
Jeremy: it because like,
Seth Fannin: I usually get so close to your product that you like wake up and you're wow. You know, like I didn't need all of this, you know, like, why am I adding tools to myself to manage more tools and the run this process, I want to do the minimal, you know, possible to be able to get there'll be effective.
Jeremy: Like the one pain point that someone, that someone is feeling right, where it's like that one thing where it's like, cool, I wish I could drop ship this thing. So you make a quick drop shipping thing, go back to that person. Say, would you be willing to spend 10 bucks a month on this? Right. Like, and dude, so many people, I mean, this is number one piece of advice for me, I guess, at this episode, at least.
So for me, it's about not listening to any random fucker. Dude, like for me, it is, everyone will tell you overly nice things and then overly mean things. Yeah. Dude, the people, the only people you should be listening to are people who buy from you or invest in you. That's it. People who have some real form of skin in the game, normally monetarily like money.
Right? So like that's the tip I give lastly here, Seth, before we close this out, is. What is, what is the biggest tip, the biggest pro tip or the second biggest? I know you gave a tip a while back, but what is a pro tip for people that are kind of starting out if you had to envelop it all into one thing, what would that be for people starting out no-code
Seth Fannin: so, um, I guess a couple little things jammed into one.
It would be, um, kind of, um, you know, it's kinda, like I said, uh, it's not about the tools, you know, use it's how you use them. Um, yeah. People just need to understand that it takes time to even build no code knowledge, no code, you know, it was meant to be easy, but you know, as more saturated, it does get harder and more overwhelming with the choices.
So, um, you know, just take your time to build that knowledge. Um, just find the best way to share information, you know, and I think I've read a maker it's going to be very different. And like you said, don't listen to just some random, like, uh, People are people out there because, and regardless, every entrepreneur's journey is different.
So just because what worked for another, it doesn't mean it's going to work for someone else. That's why it's best to always listen to your customer and the problem you're solving and that's validation, right. That's validation. One-on-one
Jeremy: absolutely. Dude, I love it. So, and again, we're going to have to have you come back on a, an update on some progress.
We'll get you to my level. That's all good. That's all. We'll do. Awesome, Seth. Thank you. So where can people find you, man? What's your Twitter name by me
Seth Fannin: on a Twitter, um, uh, Fanon underscore Seth
Jeremy: boom, or operate, especially
Seth Fannin: in no-code space.
Jeremy: Love it, dude. Seth, thank you so much for coming on. I look forward to hearing back from you.
Thanks. I appreciate you.