Jeremy: Maybe I'll just record. Okay. Wit dude, by the way, I don't even know your last name.
Anderson. Okay. Uh, cause it's just wet all over Twitter. Yeah, I agree. Exactly, exactly. Do you do that for a reason or
Whit Anderson: it's just sort of,
Jeremy: I, I want to jump into this really fast cause like, uh, as I'm on tour, cause I'm um, camera here, Twitter here. And, uh, I fucking love what you did with the Ilan stocks.com, things like that. That to me is the beautiful power of no code. Mm, right. Like quickly getting shit up, making, have you made some, uh, like a little money?
Have you done anything
Whit Anderson: at all?
. A little bit of money. Not with, not with Dion in particular, but uh, I mean, this is like our, this is our 11th draft for bad unicorn. Um, so we're getting better and, uh, yeah, a little bit more competent each
Jeremy: time I love this. Like it's like, um, and we'll get into what bad unicorn is.
Cause I thought it was hilarious. Uh, and how much you share. Um, so, uh, we'll get into that in a second bad unicorn.vc. Yeah. Um, and then you created this website, uh, uh, using no code with cards, Zapier air, table Namecheap and Twilio to follow essentially Elon Musk tweets. Some people can sign up and go into, and, uh, I think it was like maybe a couple of days after someone had literally just copied what you were doing.
Yeah. Right? Like it didn't have better brand. It wasn't better branding. You know what I mean? And I jumped on it with you and KP and Twitter. I was like, I fucking love this. Like why? Because ideas are shit. Right. Like the idea itself is shit. Like it's all in the execution, all of it. Like, so I've actually thought about making my tool opensource.
I'm like beat me motherfuckers. You know what I mean? Like I wish you could beat me, you know? So it's like in so many things are all on the backside. Of the execution piece of it and whatever that execution is, right? Like your community steps in for you and fought for you. Like I semi did, and KP did and call and you're like, because a direct copy of something is stupid.
Do you know what I mean? So like, there is no glory in that, you know? So like, uh, tell us about how you felt regarding like, seeing that person like develop that thing. Cause it's, it's quick to do. Because it's no code and like how execution plays a part after the idea.
Whit Anderson: So I've actually, it's happened to me before, so I built own random [00:03:00] pizza about a year ago and, uh, the premises subscription service, you sign up and, uh, we send you a pizza at a random time given during the month.
And, uh, so once that did well on product time, had some, had some fun. Traction. And it's kind of my first no-code project. I got, I got an interaction for awhile. I should products and I kind of shipped it into thin air and like good crickets. Um, but that's kind of a part of this process. Like you gotta ship, you gotta kind of go through those.
Um, it was early days of like some people you don't have as many people listen. And so anyways, launching a pizza. Shortly after I had someone like launch random burger and like those, like, that's the new one. So that's great. Like, like at least it's somewhat different, but they ripped my website. Copy like word for word, like all of the copy that I spent a lot of time, like writing like a whole website, like, like that was the main piece.
I think that I appreciated was my, my website copy and they just like ripped it and then they switched the word pizza for burger and it's like, Yeah. Like, you're not like in the exact same thing, but the person was like, I, I came up with this idea and like, stuff like that. And so it's like, you didn't come up with the idea, you just like, you built something and, uh, yeah.
And so is there
Jeremy: a bit, is there a beauty? I mean, there's a flattery, right? Yeah. So like there's a flattery. And then there is like, no code has opened this world to create things so quickly that you go. Oh, yeah. I CA if I can out execute you and I know it it's like, dude, I'm going to just, there's a, there's a cleverness in just literally, or I guess I would say a boldness in ripping off your shit and then going beat me.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, I don't know. It's funny. I would have, like, I mean, you can't, you know, what do you think about that?
Whit Anderson: You gotta, like, you gotta iterate on it. Like, like take the idea and like, yes. Add, added to burger and then add this nuance, add this, like, it was like, it's exact same sentence.
I'm with this most recent one, I was just like, every word was the exact same on the website. And it's like, I don't know, like you just add something, add, add, add, do the, do it for the wall street. Best person to do it for sure. And do it for the Barstool president. Um, like there's so there's in this like thing, like there would be, no problem.
I'd have been like, I probably would've. We retweeted them, promoted it. If it was like, it was some nuance.
Jeremy: Um, that's a good that's that's a good take. Like even if I were going to be pre no joke, even if I were going to be predatory, I would, I wouldn't do there's no, there's also no fun. And just ripping something off.
There's no fun in that, right? Like if there's fun and like ripping off a piece of something or going. Cause the dude, I even, I see it on some of our competitors where like, I know I had that or I did that before them. And I know that they signed up for XYZ to look up and it's like, I'll do it right back.
Fine fuckers. I'm going to take this piece. I like about your shit. You know what I mean? So like, I look at competition as like a, like a, like a one-upsmanship like, how can I take the best of, you're going to take the best of what you see in mine, guaranteed. Okay. And then I'm going to take the best of it and then we're just going to battle, you know what I mean?
So like, but I think you do kind of have to put your own spin on it. You have, cause then there's no fun then it's like, then I'm just doing the work that you originally put in. So like, even if it's like, you're not following Elan, you're like, Oh, I get what you're saying. You're following Chemmart stocks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yes, that's probably what I would do. And I was like, I, I loved that. It also validated what you were doing. Right. That's what I was kind of jumping on on Twitter. And I was like, Oh, I love this. And you definitely had like the better brand and the better Mark again, that's the execution side of it.
Right. So like how does that all fold into bad unicorn or explain what bad is? Yeah, I guess just
Whit Anderson: big, quick premise on bad in a corner, basically. A product studio slash newsletter that, that ships a new, funny, or bad business idea every other Friday. And so if we ran for about five and a half months and we flipped 11 products, and so far we haven't missed that cadence of dropping a new product every other Friday.
And so in most recent one Ilan stocks. And so most of these projects are built in. No-code kind of what we've been talking about. Speed, uh, cheap. Fast. Um, almost all of them have been built for less than a hundred dollars is actually the first project that, uh, has exceeded that. And it's just cause ours apps, uh, like we had to, we didn't realize like what the demand was going to be.
Like, again, some of our products don't get like, it's very low engagement, but this one got a lot of engagement and uh, so we've had to update our zap plan like three times.
Jeremy: Oh, that's cool.
Whit Anderson: Yeah.
[00:08:00] Jeremy: So wait, so the biggest one is Ilan stocks. You're saying.
Whit Anderson: Yeah, it's been by far our biggest, we just hit, uh, or a little over twenty-five hundred subscribers in like
Jeremy: five days.
Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Right? Like, and what is the, what was it just to be funny or like, was it, was it, I mean, cause you have like SNL for startups and I, I am originally thought I was like, this is cool. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is funny. This is entertaining. Like, is it just entertainment value or proving the power of no code?
Or like, what is it exactly? How would you,
Whit Anderson: we can stand, we can stay on a couple of those legs where it's like, it's, it's like showing people the power of no-code and kind of like, she had been like, like almost, almost shipping, like a. A lot of it. A lot of my early days, I had trouble shipping because of like a vulnerability or a feel of fear of failure thing.
When you build something funny or when you build something for your own sake or for creativity sake, like that kind of goes away. Like when, when we shipped one of our first projects, like Musk on Mars, like if someone said that was like a dumb project, when it was shipped, it's like, that's kind of the point.
Like, it's just a fun project. Like I don't, I don't care if like, so it kind of takes out that fear of failure piece. So ability to spawn projects kind of was like a cheat code for getting past that. And now that we, now that I feel confident that I can build a product, I can launch it. I can distribute it, market it in like a decent way.
Uh, yeah, I don't know. I just feel more confident about how I built and it still building funny products kind of led me to that
Jeremy: dude. That is a really great takeaway. That might be the best takeaway this podcast. I'm going to tell you that it's like, because so often, like, I'm slowly positioning V1 to be the place people start.
Right? Like I have no fucking clue how we won product on product of the year. No fuck included. If you, if I reverse engineer this, it's like no idea to be real. So it's like, um, and you think about like, it's very vulnerable to build that shit. And I've, I remember seeing what you were doing, being a fan.
Going dude. It does take away that, that like that fear of starting, because you're, you're worried about what everyone will say. Yeah. Right. And you go, if you're under the veil of dude, that's what it's for ADHD. You know what I mean? If you can take that other tone, like in like inject that tonality within it, dude that I think is fucking brilliant.
Whit Anderson: And my two biggest takeaways from bad unicorn are, or I like. I've heard, Parkinson's a lot, a bunch, which is like time expands to the like deadline or the work experience, the deadline you set. And since we're only two weeks increments, like on, on last Wednesday, we didn't even have the idea for Elan socks.
And we have to, we ship on Friday on Nunez date. And so I wasn't worried because I just knew like we were going to ship something like something was going to in shift on Friday. So like Parkinson's law like takes into account for bed in the corner of the bunch. Then, then this like fear of failure piece, which was.
Like there was times I had products like built like fully, already built and I was just making small tweaks and just twiddling my thumbs and just doing random shit to just, just put off shipping it or getting feedback and, uh, with bad unicorns, both the constraints. And also like when someone says it's a dumb product, it's like, that's, that's the fucking point.
Like, that's why we're building it.
Jeremy: So get off my fucking ass. Yeah.
Whit Anderson: When we post on like, to our like newsletter or on Twitter, like people get it, but like we'll post on Reddit all the time. And like, people will be like such a stupid idea. Like Reddit hates our ideas. Like they hate it and they don't, they don't understand the context, but, um, like there's some parts of the internet that like, we'll try to post and like read will just like
Jeremy: attack our posture.
I don't know much about no code, uh, Reddit, but like. W how has, I mean, obviously you got some love on the Ilan stocks piece and you're like, great. If you, if you fail or if you try and fail, fail, fail again. Right. Whatever that fucking quote is, everyone could. And your like your best one was on your 11th.
Try on your site. Do you know what I mean? Like that, it's, there's a brilliant lesson in that man. Right? Like the fact that you have, what's your favorite one? There's Musk on Mars, zoom, hype, man. Like, what's your actually like the design of zoom. Hi Ben.
Whit Anderson: Thank you. That's Ash. So my co-founder lives in Leeds, UK, and so we'll do half and half on the bills, but like, we're always like fully ended up, but sometimes he'll be in until built in card and then in Webflow.
Um, and yeah, so we, we, we work together as far as like branding and marketing and launching them.
Jeremy: What do you think is the best, like makes an easy platform to get started? Right. So like, if you were making one of these and it's like, Webflow has a learning curve. Right. So like, I don't think that's a great getting started tool as far as more of that.
Whit Anderson: Of, of, of NoCode of these builders and like card card to me is the, is the like, um, I dunno, the PowerPoint, like the drag and drop and you can still do cool things with card. Like, I mean, you can't do cool things, but that's like, um, I think that's like the best place to start.
Jeremy: How long have you been building a NOCCA event
Whit Anderson: around two years, year and a
And what was your, what was your first kind of foray into it?
Whit Anderson: So my first foray, I built something called, uh, ad hunt. So like early on. So it was basically this premise does like there's people launching products on it. They're getting a lot of website traffic. Like Peter levels is getting like 15,000, like 20,000 page views in like three days or two days.
And so it was just like place where you can post your products. Pre-product, it's a bad idea, but you would get a marketer and you try to put like a native ad on your site where it's like, if I was launching a product about around remote work, like I could get a job board to like, have a little thing where it's like, whatever, like you want to do, looking for remote jobs.
And like, it's like a native ad. And so jobs that, um, with non much, and I dropped a couple of other things.
Jeremy: What was it? What, what was like the moment where you're like, I got to build this thing, right. Like I got to, and the first exposure to like the no code tool that you're like, cool. So I have this idea about like, where do I go?
How do I find it? I imagine this was obviously two years ago. And did you start, I mean, card was around then was, was, um, Uh, was, was, uh, web flow. The one you went to or gravitated toward at the beginning. Cause it was just the most well-known or I just had
Whit Anderson: a buddy who used Webflow and he had made some beautiful sites.
He's far more talented than I am even still. Now he's far more talented than Webflow. And uh, so I just kinda like, just through like association was like, Oh, like there's this thing called Webflow. I use that. And uh, definitely some learning curves, like the site was made in like. Like, if you looked at this, like the instill, like I'm still like, not at Webflow designer, like you should not take lessons from anything I do, because I'm like, uh, I'm like a hacker, like I'll like take pieces from things and like, Oh, like, like copy and paste, like, like buttons from my past projects and like build it from scratch.
Like few projects I have like, just started with a blank canvas and I've like dragged in like a dip block and like, I'm not like
Jeremy: a good dude. The fact that you even know div block, I started a no-code tech company, raised money, made a bunch of money and I don't really fucking know what that is. You know what I mean?
Like I am our ICP, you know, like, uh, ideal customer profile and it's, for me, that's great because if I don't know what Dave is, Dave shouldn't be used in our fucking platform. Do you know what I mean? I don't think it's worth it to explain or feel what it is. So like, how do you go about like building or how would you go about building say you were building a no-code platform and you were going after the true 96% of people who have no idea how to navigate a CMS.
Right? Like what would be the starting point? Like the gateway to onboarding onto that tool. If I want to build something, right. Like what would be like the, you press a button and you're either like build or do whatever. What's the first thing you would throw at someone.
Whit Anderson: There's something creative.
There's something interesting about like, just having like the three and there's probably the ones that they're like, I don't know, like 10 templates that like all you have to do, like 10, 10, like I think template template in is like the best way to get into no-code or just like, have something, put your logo on.
It changed some copy. Make a, put a button that pushes to somewhere else. And it's like, you can, like, once you're done with that, you can feel like, okay, I built something like, I actually like posted. That's pretty cool, but I think there's something cool about having like the templates of like well-known businesses, because most people's first business ideas are like, they, they, they seen Uber and like Uber, like I'll build something like Uber, like Uber for X.
Jeremy: Yeah. Uber,
Whit Anderson: footballing, whatever, having those templates like where, like you can just. Basically put your thing in is interesting. So I don't know if that's like, I don't know if that's Uber, Airbnb, um, uh, like blogs, like I guess Slack community. I don't know if that's right, but I'm interested in on that where like, people are just like, like kind of from the beginning of the conversation, people are seeing ideas and they're just trying to kind of copy them in some ways or steal the ideas and like changing a little bit.
Jeremy: dude, I fucking love leaning into that. You know what I mean? It's just like, that's why I, that's why you're fucking on here. That's why I'm, I'm a fan. You know what I mean? Like not often do I look at something and go, I think it's brilliant now because like, this is gonna like make a fuck ton of money, dude.
This could definitely make you some money. Do you know what I mean? Like, and I'm not, I'm not like a. At least on a side hustle nature. Right? Like I don't even advertise what our builder can do, unless it can make you money. Right. So like, because no one sticks with shit, if it doesn't make money. So like, um, I obviously with a couple of your things, you've made that first dollar, you know what I mean?
When you go back to like building something and no coat, and you think like when that first fucking Stripe or PayPal thing clicked. Bring me back to that feeling. And what, what, what were you building on that time? So the
Whit Anderson: first dollar I made was on, it was on random pizza. I launched it on products on it, and, uh, I had 55 people paying me $20 a month,
Jeremy: which is cool.
Amazing, dude. I'll just talk to that field. It
Whit Anderson: was, it was incredible. It was definitely incredible. I had like a, I have, this is not good that the real dollar, cause it's all internet, but, um, have like a dollar with the. Like kind of like with the bat, like a pizza icon on the bottom about an eye, but yeah.
Anyways, it was, it was cool. Um, can't even, can't remember the exact moment exactly. But I know that feeling was like, especially because I had shipped a couple of products, like with no success. And so it's, uh, it was, we broke even on like all of it, like that's me, cause I've been the pizzas to people. So like, right.
Like I, I maybe made a dollar and a half or 50 cents, like per.
Jeremy: Customer. Um, okay. Yeah. Right. That's so cool. But I that's what I mean, it's still about monetizing at the beginning. Right. And then figuring out, like, if they, you can charge more and do these other things, but like getting to that, I would call the ultimate magic moment.
If you can get $1 from someone it's like, if someone values something enough [00:20:00] that they're going to run a credit card, even pre-auth. Yeah. It's like you have more traction than someone else. So like, um, where do you see bad, bad unicorn going? Like it's still joking around or like, where do you see it kinda progressing?
Whit Anderson: always be joking around, uh, it's kinda like core business, but, uh, I have like big, I have big visions for bed. Like it's, it feels like something I could do forever. And like, if I, if I feel that way, uh, it's like, I do. There's something I want do forever for a very long time, which is, which means like, okay, like if I want it, that's the plan.
It has to monetize in some way. And so, uh, there's a couple of thoughts where it's like, maybe we make some money off some of the products. Like that would be great if like, not all the products, but maybe like one in three products, we make a little bit of money and that has some MRR. And if we go 26 50, like.
Products out in the market and then make a little bit of MRR per month, like it might add up. And that would kind of ABB kind of more indie hacky, or depending on how much they make. Like, I don't know what's happening with this Elon Musk thing, but, um,
Jeremy: how think about this, if one of the things kind of takes off, do you, does does bad unit, like let's just take this tweets thing.
Elon Musk, tweets, or Ilan stocks.com. Yeah, one of the, this takes off and it's like, you now have thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people. Is it enough to where it's completely automated because it's simple enough. So like it's an automated, you can just let it go. And you're just like upping the Zapier plan or is it like, would one of these companies take a function of like bad unicorn and it's just like bad.
Unicorn is the umbrella with these eight companies that all have. 180 grand a piece. Yeah. Yeah.
Whit Anderson: It's it's I don't know. So I guess we haven't had many products that are like, I've gone game. It was like, this is the first one was like, this is, uh, we've had like, it's crazy on me. The only thing we've done is just tweet about it and post it on Brockton.
And, and somehow we have like 2,500 people signed up and they just tweeted. Uh, he's like, cause I'm going to be off Twitter for a while. So we have some time to like build out the back end a little bit better. Cause we kinda like a day and a half or like maybe two days. And so, um,
Jeremy: that was two full days or was it just like five hours this day?
Three hours this Oh,
Whit Anderson: okay. Definitely not two full days. Do we both have full-time jobs? So yeah, so it's, it's a side project for us, but. Yeah. So yeah, we're going to try to figure out some cool ways to like, uh, work better with the, like the Zapier and the Twilio side of things. We use Twilio to send the text messages, but yeah, it's, it was a full out like the backend was bad.
Like when we got, we had to submit a text, we had to send out a text, uh, two days ago, two mornings ago. Uh, and it, um, Yeah. It was like a hacky way of like sitting in it. And so
Jeremy: that's how everything should start though, man. Like I named our company V1, you know what I mean? If you're not starting, if you're getting in your head, I try not to like get in people's head, right?
Like, are I try to get them out of it with going? It doesn't matter if your first version is shit, your first version, your V1 should be the one you throw away. Yeah, right. So like Bo FA but build, but build, but put some time, put some money, put some, put something into it. So you're learning and getting something out of it.
And I constantly tell that to people. Lastly, the last thing I want to ask is, um, what would, what would be a piece of advice that you would give someone? And I know you've had a couple of brilliant nuggets like throughout here, which I could probably just throw that in there, but if you had like one kind of pro tip.
No code pro tip to some, to some, to the no-code CEOs out there. [00:24:00] What would it be?
Whit Anderson: The pro tip? I guess I didn't mention it. And this is kind of maybe even pretty bad and unicorn, but, but something that led me to bat unicorn was, was like fine. Finding an accountability group of like, like three to five to eight, like 900 people.
Like this is probably basic advice, but I joined a group called zero one. Uh, around that time, Kate KP who's, who's popular on Twitter and, uh, KP and I can't be started at, and he had two sessions where he started assessed the group and there was just empty. And then that third one, I was just like, I saw it on like a bulletin board type thing.
And I came, I was like, Hey, like I'm wit, like, I didn't know, like really no code was, but I joined this group with them and we kind of were like, the only thing was like, we're both like kind of makers and builders and, and. Just that. And then from that point out, and the only constraint was every single day at 4:00 PM.
Every Friday we met and we talked about what we did last week, what we're going to do next week, and then a fun product that we saw this past week, too. We have a list. This was two years ago. So we have now we've had like funneled members, like in and out, and it's a bit for awhile. It was just me and KP and another buddy, Chris.
And, um, And it's like grown into, uh, like some, some really cool makers that have built cool things. But the main thing, the only thing was just that small habit of like every Friday at 4:00 PM, we're going to meet at this spot and we're going to do this active activity. And now it's all virtual, but
Jeremy: for a long time physical, it was physical.
Yeah, it was. Wow, dude. It's hilarious. You say that because like, I. I mean, I've bought some like, no, like no code CEO and a couple of domains. And I think about different ways to engage the community in my own brand, which is like this build motherfucker. I'm not going to judge you. You know what I mean? I will protect you from people just like I will jump in and fucking attack, whoever the fuck.
If they're going to judge like that fear, like, dude, I feel that fear with my own platform, right? Like that fear you felt before you launch it. It was just like, dude, it's a, it's a joke, obviously. Right? I literally, it's just a big fucking middle finger to light some of these people where I'm like. If you judge people for building something, you're a piece of human garbage.
Like I want that known, you know, so like, I was like, uh, I think it's, I haven't even launched anything, but it was like, accountability is a big thing. And it was like, I don't think I got no code accountability, but it was like NC accountability or something. And I was like, thinking about different ways to do it, but it sounds like you had, like, everyone has their own way.
Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's just like, I've never done anything with it because it was like, I don't know. So like, I'd love to have you back on the show and then maybe you can help me help keep me accountable to put that accountability.
Whit Anderson: Yeah, no, no. He's the master community guy. Katie is so good to community.
So get to speaking. He's uh, he's, I've learned a whole lot from KP, so he's, he's been like one of my. Man, like friends slash mentors through this whole thing.
Jeremy: He is so terrific. I think I'm touching base with him and on deck, I think next week, um, we talked just a few weeks ago, uh, and he has been such a champion of no-code and the shit that he's doing.
He's all like, he's a bad-ass. Yeah, I love it. So, dude, uh, where can people find you? You're at whip fourth, w four T H on Twitter. Where else can people find you.
Whit Anderson: Uh, you can find me on, I guess you can find bad unicorn at bad unicorn BC, uh, on Twitter. Then you can find, you can go subscribe to our firstname.lastname@example.org.
I then Burmese mostly some projects. I guess you can see all the projects there, but for the most recent projects, you can go to Ilan stocks.com.
Jeremy: I love it, dude. I'm going to have to have you come back on tape. Keep me, keep me a fucking accountable because I'm I'm awesome. Thanks so much for coming on, brother.
Yeah. Nice to meet you. All right.